The 16 cylinder BMW that almost was.... BMW 767i "Goldfish"

"Awedgar" (Awedgar) 08/31/2013 at 09:31 • Filed to: None

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It's 1987, and Dr. Karlhienz Lange, Adolf Fischer and Hanns-Peter Weisbarth, the very germanic gentlemen who would also be responsible for the 8 series BMW, decide to make a production ready 16 cylinder version of the e32 7 series.

Lange instructed Fischer to explore the possibilities beyond the M70 engine. And it was from then that the Secret Seven project was born and BMW’s first V16 engine came into fruition.

Less than six months after Lange gave the go ahead on the project, Fischer had a complete (and production ready) 6.7 liter V16 engine on a dynamometer on Christmas Eve in 1987. Naturally the numbers on the V16 engine were nothing short of impressive boasting 408 bhp at 5200rpm and 461 ft lb of torque at 3900rpm, more than 100bhp and 100 ft lb torque than the 5.0 liter V12. The engine was run by two Bosch engine management systems, essentially treating it as two straight-eight cylinders.

Within the walls of BMW, the Secret Seven project was also known as the “Goldfish”. Reason being, the 7 Series sedan that the V16 engine was fitted into was a golden color so the project was christened the Goldfish.

The V16 was 12 inches longer than the V12 in the engine bay. Naturally, this caused many problems, such as the fact there was no room for cooling. So, being pragmatic germans, the cooling was relegated to the rear of the car!

The best part of the car? It came with a 6 speed manual transmission also used in the 8 series! And BMW's first airbag steering wheel, and by far its ugliest.

In the prototype phase, the V16 was ready for full production and BMW did consider building a “Super 7 of sorts but securing approval from the board was too far fetched and the V16 never saw a garage or driveway.

Sure, 400bhp is what a lot of cars get out of 6 cylinders today, and its 0-60 times of just under 6 seconds isn't neck snapping, but owning a 16 cylinder 7 series must have felt very nice to say.

davedave1111 > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 09:36

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I don't think I've ever seen a NACA duct look so out of place. Like wearing a sports shirt under a smart suit or something.

Bluecold > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 09:51

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"Sure, 400bhp is what a lot of cars get out of 6 cylinders today, and its 0-60 times of just under 6 seconds isn't neck snapping"

BMW was able to get 80 hp/l in a road car back in 1987, see the M88/3 and S14. But the engine being developed for a 7 series, the focus would have been be on power delivery and turbine-like smoothness instead of raw power. I bet you could rev the engine while balancing a ming vases on a nickel on it.

Fuel_of_Satan > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 10:08

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http://jalopnik.com/5665577/bmws-7…

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

But its worth a repeat.

TXKnight > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 10:25

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Because functional ducts. *quack*

Critical Bill > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 10:31

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With ducts that size you'd have to worry about sucking up large birds or small people every time you went out for a drive.

472CID > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 10:32

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Very cool, I love hearing about projects that could have been. This sort of reminds me of how GM put a BMW V12 in a Caprice, because, well because why not.

DankyBrobrowsky > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 10:33

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Great article! That engine is a beaut.

LodestarRunner > Bluecold 08/31/2013 at 10:34

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Thank you. Many in the uninformed masses will not understand anything about smoothness or powerband. Yes, Honda's F20 makes 120 hp/l but that powerband is completely inappropriate for a luxury car.

Incognigro > 472CID 08/31/2013 at 10:34

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because science or because race car usually works as well

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > davedave1111 08/31/2013 at 10:39

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I have always been under the impression that there is no wrong place for a NACA duct. That is, until I saw that picture.

AVH > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 10:40

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When BMW got Rolls Royce they did consider placing a V16 in their upcoming Phantom. But like this Beemer it didn't got the boards approval. but we did see it in action in the movie, Johnny English Reborn, but in a much sportier (and classier) Rolls Royce Phantom Coupe

Awedgar > AVH 08/31/2013 at 10:43

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Aah yes I saw the Top Gear interview! Rowan Atkinson was wonderfully expressive

fintail > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 10:57

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Today 6.7l would make it a 780iL (xDrive M-sport)

GMfishbowls > 472CID 08/31/2013 at 10:58

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I had no idea this existed. When your engine is worth substantially more than the rest of the car, that is either a terrible idea, or you have your priorities straight.

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicl…

Awedgar > fintail 08/31/2013 at 10:59

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#efficientdynamics

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:07

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But given the 7 series depreciation and BMW maintenance costs, the first oil change would effectively total the car.

Awedgar > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 08/31/2013 at 11:10

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very true, and due to 16 cylinders, would probably deplete an entire nation's oil resources!

fintail > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:15

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doh I knew I was forgetting something.

And it would have five figure "individual" paint and interior schemes.

RalphieDC > fintail 08/31/2013 at 11:17

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790il if they turbo it!

atfsgeoff > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:17

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V16, RWD, 6 speeds, 3 pedals.

This is the coolest BMW prototype ever built.

Awedgar > atfsgeoff 08/31/2013 at 11:24

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definitely one of the most Jalop cars ever

Rockchops > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:24

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I've never seen an 8 series with a six speed - did they have any in the states?

M54B30 > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:24

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I read up on this for the first time maybe a year ago, what a sweet ride this would've been.

Awedgar > Rockchops 08/31/2013 at 11:26

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Yes, in twelve cylinder form only.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/…

TheDoubleClutchBandit > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:35

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Put that shit in the new Toyota Supra and I'm first on the waiting list.

Rockchops > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:38

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Do. Want. That's a decent price for that one too.

CRX-Wing > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:46

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As a former 750il owner I can say that I wish they'd have made this.

Awedgar > Rockchops 08/31/2013 at 11:48

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Do it!

truebeliever > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:49

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how much do you think it weighed? If you crashed into any car, you would bore through wherever you hit.

truebeliever > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:50

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They should try that engine in an Excursion or Suburban.

chromaticrabbit > atfsgeoff 08/31/2013 at 11:51

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There should have been more V16 cars, just because. Though I'll confess I think the occasional late 80s BMW E32/750i V12 I see for not-much on craigslist (like this one ) I'm more nostalgic to the idea of what it was like to drive one when it was new. :) All that I've owned have been I4 engines. Not so appealing would be the maintenance/repair and fuel bill.

Awedgar > truebeliever 08/31/2013 at 11:51

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Yeah I don't even wanna think about the weight....or the weight distribution! You couldn't offset the front heaviness by weighing the trunk down, because there isn't any haha

my car smells like crayons > Bluecold 08/31/2013 at 11:51

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The V12 offered that kind of balance already.

Four more cylinders gives you:

slightly lower RPMs,

the option for selecting any V-angle

heavier weight

increased production costs (plus a dedicated line for 8-cyl banks)

decreased fuel efficiency

I'll happily take the V12 any day.

my car smells like crayons > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 11:54

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Killed, because the V12 was already too awesome:

atfsgeoff > chromaticrabbit 08/31/2013 at 12:04

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Not gonna lie, I've come VERY close to pulling the trigger on one of those thousand dollar late 80s V12 7-series. I know in the back of my mind that it will bankrupt me, but I want one anyway. Because V12.

atfsgeoff > atfsgeoff 08/31/2013 at 12:07

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Also, there needs to be a Transporter movie based ENTIRELY around this car.

Bluecold > my car smells like crayons 08/31/2013 at 12:20

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I was not directly saying that the V16 is that much smoother than a V12 (although it must be said that a V16 does have the distinct advantage of 25% more impulses per revolution), just that the power figures are not as unimpressive as the article portrays them to be. However, it must be said that a V16 makes a much more exclusive noise, extra cachet to look down on plebes and probably some insane speedhunters build thread in which a Swedish guy goes nuts with the block which then makes an ungodly amount of horsepower.

mastawyrm > my car smells like crayons 08/31/2013 at 13:02

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It's going in a 7 series, I'm sure the majority of people who even might have bought it would have done so because v16

DerMitDemWolfTanzt > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 13:27

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Dear Sir,

Karlhienz was not his name, it is Karlheinz!

DIRTEE30 > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 13:31

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I love BMW, but they can't make an engine worth a damn beyond 8-cylinders. They couldn't get the 5.0 V-12 right, and they wanted to play with four more cylinders on top of that?!

Stick with inline-6s, BMW. You're very good at that. Leave the V-12s to Ferrari and Lamborghini.

KamikazePigeon > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 13:47

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This BMWs rear is just too rad.

#IllSeeMyselfOut

appliance5000 > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 13:49

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Wow - 16 cyclinders and it still looks like a boring slab of German steel - how does BMW do it?!!!

Built BMW Tough > 472CID 08/31/2013 at 13:49

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Link?

IDRIVENEON > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 13:51

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That is horribly savage. I love it.

BigGatorChris > TheDoubleClutchBandit 08/31/2013 at 14:11

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I want to stuff one in a kit Cobra.

Tom Bennett > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 14:33

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Yeah, that's going to take a little more work in the styling department. It looks like a parking lot mishap.

wkiernan > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 14:44

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Go to the store, get some groceries, put 'em in the trunk, drive to the park and presto! your picnic lunch is all cooked! What convenience!

Brutal Calves > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 14:54

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This article is pure Jalopnik!

That 16 cylinder must be huge if it barely fills a 7 series engine bay without room for cooling.

vc-10 > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 14:57

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NACA ducts... were they getting jealous of Boeing's 767?

Awedgar > DerMitDemWolfTanzt 08/31/2013 at 15:17

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Tut mir leid!

Boris_Nofziger_1000 > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 15:18

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Good thing they quit wasting their time on powerful sport sedans like this and started focusing on the hottest mall-roving mommymobiles like the X5 and 535GT. #progress?

Collin > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 15:19

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What's better than a 6MT RWD BMW sedan with a V8? A 6MT RWD BMW sedan with two V8s, of course.

Awedgar > Boris_Nofziger_1000 08/31/2013 at 15:24

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Amen

Awedgar > Collin 08/31/2013 at 15:25

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Agreed, although I would be happy with a straight eight, just because

Casey Callaghan > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 15:37

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needs more wagon

Sebastián Peñuela > 472CID 08/31/2013 at 15:47

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Amazing! I want to know more about this!!! GM has done some batshit insane ideas.

Also I remember a sort of BMW concept that featured a straight -8 engine... Anyone knows/remembers?

Rob > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 15:49

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I can't imagine that this would achieve double digit fuel economy numbers even while cruising, but damn I'd like to hear the exhaust note.

Porcodio > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 16:05

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If V16 fits, straight 8 will fit, with the cooling.
Why no more straight 8s????

Thomasaurus > appliance5000 08/31/2013 at 16:39

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What you call boring, I call timeless. I love that era of BMW.

alexlam24 > Bluecold 08/31/2013 at 16:47

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Or just buy a rotary!

alexlam24 > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 16:48

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BMW's 911

DerMitDemWolfTanzt > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 16:53

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Entschuldigung akzeptiert :)

DickNixon1972 > Rockchops 08/31/2013 at 17:46

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I sold a green '92 850i 6SPD a few years ago. It was the only (seriously the ONLY) BMW I've dealt with in my 6 years of being in the used car business that was a) reliable b) needed NO reconditioning c) didn't result in angry phone calls or e-mails from the end purchases or d) all of the above.

If it weren't for that one particular car, I would have no problem saying unequivocally that BMWs are German Dodges with comparable build quality and more expensive parts. Period.

elkris > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 17:49

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I've always loved the 850, especially the beautiful sounding V12 powerplant. I had no idea about this top secret project. Excellent reporting! Now I want one:)

dariof01 > 472CID 08/31/2013 at 18:22

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appliance5000 > Thomasaurus 08/31/2013 at 18:32

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That's what i tell the ladies, but it's not working.

Kanaric > Awedgar 08/31/2013 at 20:45

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would of been cool if they took half this engine and made a straight 8

alexotics > Awedgar 09/01/2013 at 00:01

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I'm not sure how you found out about this, but I'm blown away. Amazing bit of history. Do you have any more of this stuff?

Cain_Robertson > 472CID 09/01/2013 at 02:47

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Intriguing, tell us more...never heard of the project.

Kevin Barrett > Awedgar 09/01/2013 at 03:37

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I dunno—it needs a little something more.

288GTOhYEAH > Awedgar 09/01/2013 at 04:28

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Impressive but that gash in back is terribly jarring. I am a bit more impressed and wish they made the V12 Z3 a production vehicle.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/bmw-…

Awedgar > alexotics 09/01/2013 at 08:32

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I do, I'll be showing a couple more this weekend, feel free to follow my channel ;)

Awedgar > 288GTOhYEAH 09/01/2013 at 08:32

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Haha was planning on posting it, you read me well ;)

472CID > Built BMW Tough 09/01/2013 at 10:14

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Y'all need to learn how to Google

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicl…

ranwhenparked > Awedgar 09/01/2013 at 11:42

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I'm guessing they would have either cleaned up the opening in the rocker panels or found some way to lengthen the front end before production - but, either way, know know this would have been a justifiable business proposition in the cocaine & Wall Street fueled 1980s. Shame they vetoed it.

Loping Camshaft > atfsgeoff 09/01/2013 at 19:10

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Don't forget about the side scoops!

mmuulinn > Awedgar 09/02/2013 at 01:11

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Just curious, how come engines went from 12 cylinder to 16 cylinder and skipped 14 cylinder?

Awedgar > mmuulinn 09/02/2013 at 08:52

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I've always wondered that too. I believe that it's due to a V14 being inherently unbalanced (ie two rows of 7 cylinders) which would put stress on the crankshaft, however due to the fact uneven cylinder numbers are still widely being produced, such as inline 5s, I'm not sure if that is the case?

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Awedgar 11/12/2013 at 08:11

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Rear cooling would score mad jalopmeter points! If it were actually a thing.... Dang you BMW.

signintokinjalol > Awedgar 02/01/2014 at 09:45

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Thought that was a play button...

911e46z06 > Awedgar 06/28/2015 at 19:23

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Big ups dude. Good read.

scribble > Awedgar 06/28/2015 at 20:13

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“The engine was run by two Bosch engine management systems, essentially treating it as two straight-eight cylinders.”

Isn’t that how the V12 worked? Two engine managment systems, treating it like two straight sixes?

A friend of mine had a 12-cylinder 850 CSi with the 5.0L V12 that made 300 hp. It was an auto (yuck). But it was strong and SMOOTH. Just a damn nice car, and looked great, too. It put a smile on my face every time I floored it, and I owned a much faster (but way cheaper) car.

I imagine the V16 would be like the V12 but even better. I also imagine that the lack of space for cooling and need for a rear radiator was probably the main hurdle to bringing this car into production. It’s one thing to create a prototype, but how functional is that cooling in stop-and-go traffic? With those relatively tiny NACA ducts (are they still considered NACA ducts?). Oh, and maintenance costs would be hellacious on that thing. But it’s so damn cool!

This is actually making me want a V12 7-series now, despite my better judgement. God I want a BMW. Actually, I want like six (or more) different particular BMWs...

scribble > 472CID 06/28/2015 at 20:22

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You, sir, deserve kudos. Because when I first read your post claiming that GM themselves put a BMW V12 into a Caprice, I assumed you were an idiot who mistook a home creation for an actual GM project. But, knowing better, I decided to do some searching and my mind was blown to find out that you were absolutely correct. You have blown my mind. GM has blown my mind. My rationality has been blown to pieces (because this really makes no sense, especially the part about them actually buying a full car and tearing it apart just for the engine). This is one of the craziest things I’ve ever heard of. I love it when a major manufacturer does batshit stuff like this (credit to GM, they tend to have a history of occasional batshittery).

Side note: yes, I used both bold and italic because of how absurd this idea is and how ignorant I was that this actually happened. I am humbled. And on a side note, I totally want one.

DrScientist > Rockchops 06/28/2015 at 21:48

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test drove one once. amazing. also this auction just closed.

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-b…

Saracen > Awedgar 12/09/2015 at 19:39

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it isn’t much today, but in 1987, 400hp was more powerful than damn near anything short of a 959 or F40.

Manin Pub (told me so it must be true) > Awedgar 12/09/2015 at 20:07

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Silly Idea, really.

Nauraushaun > Awedgar 12/09/2015 at 20:14

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Not sure why this popped up in my feed, but it’s awesome and I want to know where it is now.

Iancase10 > Awedgar 02/27/2018 at 13:48

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A 4 cylinder is already inherently unbalanced as it is, so going to a 5 cylinder you’re STILL unbalanced, but adding displacement. I’m wondering if the drawbacks outweigh the benefits once you start getting into balanced designs with even numbers of cylinders over 6?

Fee > mmuulinn 09/29/2019 at 14:56

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Because V7 engines don’t exist